Comments on: Karoshi 2.0

By: Ludus Novus :: Execution: Changing Games Forever

Ludus Novus :: Execution: Changing Games Forever — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 21:43:59 +0000

[...] few weeks ago, Jesse Venbrux, creator of the previously-discussed Karoshi games, released a short interactive piece called “Execution.” Not really a [...]

By: Jesse

Jesse — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:18:15 +0000

Thanks for clearing that up, I agree that a certain type of player will dislike these tricks, though I have not heard many people complain about that (probably also because they are not the kind of people visiting indie game websites, etc).

Keep up the good work!

By: ludusnovus

ludusnovus — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:27:25 +0000

Oh, I enjoyed the game and its trust-breaking. I called it “weaker” in the post because of the tricks it pulls, but I think my choice of words was wrong. It’s not a weaker game; it’s a less accessible game. By screwing with the player’s head, the game necessarily alienates players who don’t like that kind of battling-the-developer gameplay.

Also, the fact that the game does it again and again makes it better. As long as players tolerate the first couple of tricks the game pulls, they’ll expect them from then on. But I think that you’ll probably lose some people who hit the first few tricks and say “Well, that was dumb! How does that make sense?” That’s fine, I think, as I don’t think they’re the target audience you’re aiming for.

Like you say, I think you do a good job of encouraging the character to continue. I had fun, even if I did curse you a few times for the tricks you pulled. That saved-game erasure trick was just cruel.

By: Jesse

Jesse — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:16:09 +0000

Really interesting piece you have here. It is true that I sort of “break the trust” but I try to do this at moments where I expect the player to be far enough in the game that s/he still wants to continue.

You look at games different than the average player, and I wonder whether that changed your view on it? I haven’t heard anyone complain yet about the concerns you have…
The general consensus amongst players is that this one is much better than the first.

“Punishment” by Messhof is an example that does a little bit of the same: It punishes you, but the game is so good you still want to continue.

Thanks for the article though, I have not quite looked at it that way yet. I knew what I did was risky, but sometimes you must do risky things.

By: Lissa

Lissa — Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:45:54 +0000

Hmm. Definitely sounds like a game that’s not my sort. Perhaps you could do an episode on player/developer trust. I’d be interested in an analysis of (of course) the types of games I enjoy playing, versus those I don’t when it comes to trust. I suspect I very quickly stop playing games when they break my trust. See: Doom 2’s final level. (*mutter about a little hidden head*)

Heck, if you can refine to a fairly discrete idea, it would make a great category in GameOn. It’s an important idea.