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	<title>Comments on: The Tone Disconnect and the Groucho Solution</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/</link>
	<description>The Art of Interaction</description>
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		<title>By: Lissa</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43648</link>
		<dc:creator>Lissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43648</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with the Wolf -- we may want to hash out the desired mood this week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with the Wolf &#8212; we may want to hash out the desired mood this week.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindwolf77</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43549</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindwolf77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43549</guid>
		<description>So we worked in to a mini-grove -- light hearted -- and honestly the interaction coming at it from the &quot;other side&quot; -- (the very serious Vampire Prince, the Very Serious ....um ... feather-face fellow) -- is played out quite well. With multiple concepts and directions in play -- I agree -- I could totally see that being draining. 

We should hash out next session what works for you, and we&#039;ll adapt :) -- there&#039;s a symbiosis there for sure, and I think everyone would have a good time regardless. 

(Side note a -- music drop failed miserably -- I&#039;ll just get you a CD next I see ya&#039;ll. Side note b -- I hope the move went nice &amp; easy for you all!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So we worked in to a mini-grove &#8212; light hearted &#8212; and honestly the interaction coming at it from the &#8220;other side&#8221; &#8212; (the very serious Vampire Prince, the Very Serious &#8230;.um &#8230; feather-face fellow) &#8212; is played out quite well. With multiple concepts and directions in play &#8212; I agree &#8212; I could totally see that being draining. </p>
<p>We should hash out next session what works for you, and we&#8217;ll adapt :) &#8212; there&#8217;s a symbiosis there for sure, and I think everyone would have a good time regardless. </p>
<p>(Side note a &#8212; music drop failed miserably &#8212; I&#8217;ll just get you a CD next I see ya&#8217;ll. Side note b &#8212; I hope the move went nice &amp; easy for you all!)</p>
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		<title>By: Maher</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43104</link>
		<dc:creator>Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 00:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43104</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s what I&#039;m talking about!

Sounds like you don&#039;t have too much of a problem after all Gregory haha!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m talking about!</p>
<p>Sounds like you don&#8217;t have too much of a problem after all Gregory haha!</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Wallace</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43086</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 19:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43086</guid>
		<description>Oh how I wish I had enough friends who were interested in table top rpgs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh how I wish I had enough friends who were interested in table top rpgs.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Weir</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43016</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 17:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43016</guid>
		<description>Well, I see a game as a conversation between the players and the GM.  You guys are coming at it from one side, and me from the other, and I think we can meet halfway.  If I have trouble sustaining that, I&#039;ll totally talk to you folks about it.  But I think we&#039;ll get into a comfortable groove after another session or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I see a game as a conversation between the players and the GM.  You guys are coming at it from one side, and me from the other, and I think we can meet halfway.  If I have trouble sustaining that, I&#8217;ll totally talk to you folks about it.  But I think we&#8217;ll get into a comfortable groove after another session or two.</p>
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		<title>By: Mindwolf77</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43013</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindwolf77</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 16:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43013</guid>
		<description>Though, being only 2 games in, if you want to go for a dark tone -- TOTALLY doable -- I think we&#039;re all pretty flexible about the whole thing.

Though -- I am still totally amused at taking the old Mel Brooks film, and using &quot;Jim&quot; in the concept...though that could be an outgrowth of an odd sense of humor. Overall, fun stuff so far!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though, being only 2 games in, if you want to go for a dark tone &#8212; TOTALLY doable &#8212; I think we&#8217;re all pretty flexible about the whole thing.</p>
<p>Though &#8212; I am still totally amused at taking the old Mel Brooks film, and using &#8220;Jim&#8221; in the concept&#8230;though that could be an outgrowth of an odd sense of humor. Overall, fun stuff so far!</p>
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		<title>By: Jonas</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43008</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 15:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43008</guid>
		<description>I know the situation. In the first campaign I ran with my group, I found it difficult to deal with their constant joking, since I wanted to maintain a serious &quot;fantasy&quot; atmosphere (for certain structural reasons). Sometimes I got quite angry or disappointed. Thankfully, I managed to integrate some in-game humour that helped balance things out a little.

For the second campaign, having learned from my earlier mistakes, I actually encouraged humour a lot more. The character creation system was tailored to the creation of wildly eccentric, funny characters. Many of the NPCs were funny, intentionally or not (on their part). And yet the story itself was more serious, more complex, and had many grim and powerful moments. This worked perfectly because I managed to take the humour from being an out-of-game element and integrated it into the game world itself.

This also allowed for some really fascinating moments of pulling the rug out from under the players&#039; feet. At one point, they came up with a plan to use their flying ship to drop firebombs on the enemy army; all this while most of the characters were high/drunk from something the alchemist had brewed. And they executed their plan perfectly, while laughing their asses off - until they saw thousands of people dying a brutal and horrible death in the fire. It was an incredible moment, like a punch in the stomach. Even in really desperate situations, they never used that weapon again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the situation. In the first campaign I ran with my group, I found it difficult to deal with their constant joking, since I wanted to maintain a serious &#8220;fantasy&#8221; atmosphere (for certain structural reasons). Sometimes I got quite angry or disappointed. Thankfully, I managed to integrate some in-game humour that helped balance things out a little.</p>
<p>For the second campaign, having learned from my earlier mistakes, I actually encouraged humour a lot more. The character creation system was tailored to the creation of wildly eccentric, funny characters. Many of the NPCs were funny, intentionally or not (on their part). And yet the story itself was more serious, more complex, and had many grim and powerful moments. This worked perfectly because I managed to take the humour from being an out-of-game element and integrated it into the game world itself.</p>
<p>This also allowed for some really fascinating moments of pulling the rug out from under the players&#8217; feet. At one point, they came up with a plan to use their flying ship to drop firebombs on the enemy army; all this while most of the characters were high/drunk from something the alchemist had brewed. And they executed their plan perfectly, while laughing their asses off &#8211; until they saw thousands of people dying a brutal and horrible death in the fire. It was an incredible moment, like a punch in the stomach. Even in really desperate situations, they never used that weapon again.</p>
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		<title>By: Maher</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43005</link>
		<dc:creator>Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43005</guid>
		<description>I think that is best. Intelligent or at least &quot;good&quot; players will notice where the GM is going with something and adapt to that direction as much as is reasonable for the character. The trademark of a good GM is making that contextual tone without railroading the players at every turn. Let them do what they want but keep it in your style, and good players will understand that and match it I believe. I dunno, I use that method and my games always are a blast for me and my players because we both pick up on where the story should go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that is best. Intelligent or at least &#8220;good&#8221; players will notice where the GM is going with something and adapt to that direction as much as is reasonable for the character. The trademark of a good GM is making that contextual tone without railroading the players at every turn. Let them do what they want but keep it in your style, and good players will understand that and match it I believe. I dunno, I use that method and my games always are a blast for me and my players because we both pick up on where the story should go.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Weir</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43004</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43004</guid>
		<description>Those aren&#039;t the only two possibilities I&#039;m seeing; those are the &quot;classic responses&quot; that usually don&#039;t quite work out.  The approach I&#039;m using is an attempt to match with the players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those aren&#8217;t the only two possibilities I&#8217;m seeing; those are the &#8220;classic responses&#8221; that usually don&#8217;t quite work out.  The approach I&#8217;m using is an attempt to match with the players.</p>
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		<title>By: Maher</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-43003</link>
		<dc:creator>Maher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-43003</guid>
		<description>With my players, we usually have a mutual understanding of contextual theme going on. Players can be as silly as they want provided it at least makes contextual sense in the situation and game world. I think it is strange that the only two possibilities you are seeing are so dichotomous, you and your players should be able to consolidate to each other pretty evenly.

I ran a Delta Green game that was pretty darn gritty and dark and what have you, but one of the players was a very conceptually comedic guy. However, when stuff was toned seriously, he was serious, unless being not serious would be more appropriate for his character at that situation.

Maybe it&#039;s a difference between GM styles, you are a gamist/narrativist hybrid where as I go more for narrativist/simulationist, and my players and me are way more interested in a cool story with cool characters then game elements per say.

Good luck though, your method definitely works too, also my method is hard if you have someone inexperienced with tabletop because they have a harder time I&#039;ve found knowing when to consolidate to a GM and when the GM is throwing them a bone for a story&#039;s sake, and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With my players, we usually have a mutual understanding of contextual theme going on. Players can be as silly as they want provided it at least makes contextual sense in the situation and game world. I think it is strange that the only two possibilities you are seeing are so dichotomous, you and your players should be able to consolidate to each other pretty evenly.</p>
<p>I ran a Delta Green game that was pretty darn gritty and dark and what have you, but one of the players was a very conceptually comedic guy. However, when stuff was toned seriously, he was serious, unless being not serious would be more appropriate for his character at that situation.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s a difference between GM styles, you are a gamist/narrativist hybrid where as I go more for narrativist/simulationist, and my players and me are way more interested in a cool story with cool characters then game elements per say.</p>
<p>Good luck though, your method definitely works too, also my method is hard if you have someone inexperienced with tabletop because they have a harder time I&#8217;ve found knowing when to consolidate to a GM and when the GM is throwing them a bone for a story&#8217;s sake, and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Lissa</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-42978</link>
		<dc:creator>Lissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 04:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-42978</guid>
		<description>...No.  Promy-team.  I keep trying to come up with ways to shorten Promethean in my head, and I had to just toss one out there to test the waters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;No.  Promy-team.  I keep trying to come up with ways to shorten Promethean in my head, and I had to just toss one out there to test the waters.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Weir</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-42977</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Weir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 04:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-42977</guid>
		<description>Please tell me &quot;prome-team&quot; is pronounced &quot;proh-mee-tee-em.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please tell me &#8220;prome-team&#8221; is pronounced &#8220;proh-mee-tee-em.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lissa</title>
		<link>http://ludusnovus.net/2009/05/26/the-tone-disconnect-and-the-groucho-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-42976</link>
		<dc:creator>Lissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 04:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ludusnovus.net/?p=472#comment-42976</guid>
		<description>I like this approach.  (Of course, I&#039;m in the game.)  Trying to reign in Steve would end much less humo(u)rously (haha, humour), and it would crimp my attempt at a &lt;a href=&quot;http://irrsinn.net/2009/05/27/so-many-shenanigans/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new type of character&lt;/a&gt;.

I think we&#039;ll settle down quite a bit once we figure out our characters.  A lot of the hilarity is just inconsistency and internal jostling... That jostling actually makes sense in-character, too.  Once we&#039;re a well-oiled prome-team, we&#039;ll probably be a bit more gritty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this approach.  (Of course, I&#8217;m in the game.)  Trying to reign in Steve would end much less humo(u)rously (haha, humour), and it would crimp my attempt at a <a href="http://irrsinn.net/2009/05/27/so-many-shenanigans/" rel="nofollow">new type of character</a>.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ll settle down quite a bit once we figure out our characters.  A lot of the hilarity is just inconsistency and internal jostling&#8230; That jostling actually makes sense in-character, too.  Once we&#8217;re a well-oiled prome-team, we&#8217;ll probably be a bit more gritty.</p>
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