Comments on: Murder and Red Faction: Guerrilla

By: Gregory Weir

Gregory Weir — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:49:45 +0000

I don’t recall exactly, but I think you bomb targets like EDF officer housing and EDF corporate apartments, and that these are labeled differently than barracks. Unless every EDF drone is a bachelor, it’s still quite worrying.

By: Gregory Weir

Gregory Weir — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:48:30 +0000

With how sympathetic the civilian population seems, I’m sure you could just arrange for everyone to leave the building before you blow it up.

By: guyblade

guyblade — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 23:01:45 +0000

Though I it has been a while since I played the game, I do not remember any missions that ask you to actually bomb (civilian) apartment buildings. I recall a couple of apartment complexes against EDF forces, but I may simply have forgotten. Again, power plants probably aren’t a good idea for bombing, but I’d argue that EDF barracks or EDF support organization buildings are fine targets.

By: guyblade

guyblade — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:53:02 +0000

Going after operations will probably net you a larger number of civilian casualties than merely hitting management (also, what kind of factory has an “after-hours” any more?). When the decision makers think that they may be next on the list, they tend to be a bit more concerned about the possible losses rather than being concerned with the “operating expenses” that bombing a factory might incur.

By: Gregory Weir

Gregory Weir — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 21:20:41 +0000

It does make sense. I will say that the Red Faction fight, as depicted in the game, does seem to be a worthy cause. They are facing a powerful regime that uses direct murder and serfdom as political tools, and once you’re in that situation, armed rebellion is really the only way to enact change in the short term and save lives. The game implies that nonviolent resistance has been tried and has been met with violent suppression.

But yes, I think that’s part of it. You use tactics that are ethically troubling at best, and no one seems to complain except the enemy. Civilians happily turn over their vehicles to a man who has bombed power plants and apartment buildings, and the most negative comment you get is “Try not to wreck it this time!”

By: Ziggywolf5

Ziggywolf5 — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:24:06 +0000

As per usual, I haven’t played this game, but I can see why the tactics being used would bother you. Red Faction in this game are apparently terrorists suffering from a major false dichotomy.
As far as why it bothers you while other games don’t, it’s probably a framing effect. Most games that I’m aware of, you either play a good (and almost always a) guy fighting some evil force or whatever; or a total ass (which is acknowledged by the game) against a force that’s actually worse than you. Here, you’re playing as a character who’s either an ass or delusional against someone who is… bad, but the game leaves room for the player to decide if the enemy is worse. And the game apparently refuses to acknowledge this. It’s one thing to be a monster and be treated as such. It’s another to be a monster and be treated as the hero.
Did that make any sense?

By: Gregory Weir

Gregory Weir — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:28:40 +0000

This is true, certainly. I guess I just wanted to see that ethical discussion play out in-game, even though I wouldn’t expect it to. There is a line, though, between the killing of enemy troops and the killing of civilian collaborators. We aren’t talking folks who’ve given out troop movement information or opened the back door to let in a strike team. The assassination targets are businessmen profiting off of the EDF’s rule. They’re despicable, certainly, but it seems that going after their operations would be a more acceptable way of punishing them than killing them. Bomb some factories after-hours; don’t gun them down in cold blood.

By: Gregory Weir

Gregory Weir — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:24:47 +0000

That’s possible. I didn’t get that impression, but I could have missed it. It would mitigate the issue somewhat.

By: guyblade

guyblade — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:53:35 +0000

I think what is important to remember is that what we’ve got here is a foreign power subjugating a local population. Effectively, they are at war, even if it is an insurgient one. In a war of this kind, you don’t win by feeling sorry for enemy soldiers or civilian “collaborators”. I do question some of the infrastructure destruction (power generators and the like) from a pure pragmatic stance, but I have no particular issue with them targeting softer EDF targets nor would I say that infrastructure targets are somehow unacceptable. Tactically and strategically, these are what you want to hit to do the most damage with limited resources.

The torture scene was probably unnecessary though and perhaps the only thing that the Red Faction did with which I would seriously take issue.

By: Kalapadea

Kalapadea — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:42:54 +0000

In the cinematics for the game, it looked like the EDF soldiers were all the same, like clones. That’s why I thought they called them “drones”.